Thursday, November 17, 2005

A question of Standards

'standard', n, a flag or military symbolic figure on a pole, marking a rallying point ..: a basis of measurement..: a criterion: a measurement .. among others.
From Old French - estandart- 'to stand'.

Funny, really, how the english language changes perceptions depending on 'words in context'. Have just been looking at the Ausflag site and am fascinated by the discussion.

Have to admit to a certain dichotomy of feeling, as my father gave his life in 1945 defending the 'standards', principles and 'flag' that currently represents the 'standard' of Australia.

My first, and emotional, impulse is to defend that flag to my dying day, but also recognise that Australia is developing a 'personality ' of its own. We began by being 'british to the bootstraps'. The concept of "fair play", "stiff upper lip", "playing by the rules", "understatement", "courage under extreme duress", "reverse and subtle sense of humour", "being polite", "loyalty" .. and even "noblesse oblige" was built into a developing Nation.

In the beginning there were two distinct "classes". The rulers, and the "convicts".

There was a small, unsuccessful rebellion against 'british beaurocracy' tried at the 'Eureka Stockade' in Ballarat, creating a a sort of standard that still strongly exists,
subliminally, to this day.

Then, after the war in 1945 we experienced another influx of 'european' migration, and the Banjo Patterson sort of Australia became something else. 'pizza', 'souvlaki' and 'kebab' entered the vernacular.

We accepted, and evolved. The children and grandchildren of the migrants "assimilated" into a developed "culture", changed it into something of our own, and we grew.

Then, as the American economic machine gained momentum, and our cinemas and industry were swallowed, television came into being, we began to change. Attitudes, insidiously inserted, changed us again .. and this one, whether we know it or not, has been flying over Parliament House in Canberra for quite some recent years..







And so, we are back to the discussion on Ausflag. While personally think that any alteration to a "republic" is an anathema without a great deal of thought and discussion as to "what sort", recognise that Australia IS moving further from the "british" ideals" - and will need a "statement of standards" of its own. This one sort of appeals to me.

And this one - without the words "true blue" - also appeals. (designed, methinks, by John Williamson.

The discussion continues.

(PS. our troops in Al Murtanna province find that 'the flag' is not enough, so have painted big red kangaroos on the side of their vehicles. Australian troops have a great deal of respect, internationally)

15 comments:

Peter said...

G'day Davo, sorry I missed your flurry of short posts o f late, you had developed the weekends only routine a bit so i hadn't been looking. Now then; British to the bootstrap, more like copping the british boot, our main,(but not only) link with mother england was as a dumping ground for her unwanted covicts, these are our forebears, not the pompous stiff upper lip brigade.
I respect totally that your Father served under the existing flag, the point being he would have served just as willingly and well under an Australian flag that didn't glorify england.
Bring on the Republic and a truly Australian flag. Phew I'm exhausted.

Davoh said...

Peter, I can understand, and appreciate your fervour. To write a comprehensive essay about this post is a bit difficult time wise. And by the way .. South Australians are pretty much from the 'pompous stiff upper lip brigade". The State was founded by a "company" and "free settlers", never had any "convicts". The South Australian Company had more capital than the local "government" - so built and paid for most of the early infrastructure.(grins)

Davoh said...

Peter, once upon a time .. years ago, was involved for 30 years in the 'entertainment' industry. Stage screen and TV. i watched this Nation swamped. Am now a founder member of the Old SOAC's* Association. Formed one night in the bar of a Maryborough pub. Am the only member.
(* Stamp Out American Crap)

BwcaBrownie said...

My SA ancestor Robert Lyon Milne was a Scot and landed in the 1840's.
My convict arrived in 1832.
My Grandfather was MID for being under constant fire in the 3 battles for the Hindenberg Line 1917. My father did his bit in WW2 - RAAF stationed in England.
The Flag: if the flag's job was to represent the Spirit of Australia, it would change every 10 years and become meaningless and get no respect. The only change I could bear, would be simply deleting the Union Jack and leaving our Southern Cross.

Davoh said...

Brownie, this - essentially - is a long discussion. Australia is one of the few countries, Nations, in the world where one can travel 2000 miles north to South, East to West .. and find the same sort of people, with the same accent, same sort of houses, same sort of living conditions. (OK, generally)

If there is ANY change to the flag, or political structure, then it HAS to represent ALL of us. I have no problem with the 'Jack'. My grandfather came to South Australia from New Zealand. I can trace His forebears back to Lincolnshire circa 1580.

Davoh said...

On a different note, my mother's family probably came from one of the first "illegal immigrants". Maternal Greatgreat grandfather "jumped ship" and changed his name. We think he came from somewhere in Scandinavia.

JahTeh said...

Hawaii has the Union Jack on its state flag as a tribute to Captain Cook.
Ours is a tribute to colonialism.

Davoh said...

That, methinks, is one of the problems with having it there. We seem to be stuck in 'colonial' mentality, and are now swapping from one 'superpower' apron-strings to another.

PhilippinesPhil said...

Then, as the American economic machine gained momentum, and our cinemas and industry were swallowed, television came into being, we began to change. Attitudes, insidiously inserted, changed us again .. and this one, whether we know it or not, has been flying over Parliament House in Canberra for quite some recent years.

davo, I've lived all over the world in my little life, and I'm American. (No apologies, sorry!) You what I've noticed? Your complaint about the unwelcome influences from the USA is a universal one. I live in the Philippines, and I hear it here, especially from the academic community in search of a place to point accusing fingers.

What everyone seems to ignore is that the "purveyors" and "practicers" of American culture NEVER worry about it's influences. As Americans, we gobble up anything and everything that attracts us, whether it be from Europe, Africa, Asia, and even Australia! If it appeals to us, we accept it, chew it up, swallow it, and make it ours. We assimilate! Then, we make movies and tv shows about it, and when it gets to you, you call it American!

Are we really so overwhelming? I've run into Brits and Germans who have actually cursed me for being from "that country," so hatefilled and resentful they are. It amazes me. One Englishman actually told me he would NEVER visit the United States, and he very nearly spit as he said it. Let's see, he blamed us for the IRA, for KFC, and the ubiquitous and "damnable" McDonalds! And you know what he REALLY hated about us? ...that we didn't worship soccer like the rest of the world. (Again, no apologies!)

All I could do was smile and shake my head. I wonder if the whole world used to hate the Romans like this in THEIR heyday?

Davoh said...

phil, Thankyou for visiting. Actually i agree with you.
It is one of the reasons that Jeshua of Nazareth gained much support, in his time.

PhilippinesPhil said...

davo, you've hooked me. Explain please how Jesus got so much support? Because...

Davoh said...

Erk!, Phil. Am thinking that that requires a rather long explanation (to give my 'point of view'). Am working on a fairly longish post that might cover some of it, but the shortish answer is that there is a certain amount of 'xenophobia' in every society, and every time period.

Every society has had a tendency to resent 'influences' from other tribes/nations. Am sure that all the countries taken over by the British had their 'resistance' leaders. Gandhi was one. Whoever started/led the American 'war of independence' would be another. I have the suspicion that Jesus (as he is now known) was one of the 'al Zarkowi type' insurgent leaders against the influence of Rome. However, don't get me wrong, am making up this reply as I go along, so should be phrased differently and have more detail. Will send you am email when have thought about it a bit more.

Also, as the "Empires" have come and gone there is always some residual benefit.. but, as I say, it's a long story.
Cheers.

Davoh said...

No, I'll retract the 'al zarkowi' reference. Gandhi would be a better analogy.

Anonymous said...

Can you please contact me in conection with your ancestor, Robert Lyon Milne, at 08 9335 7892?

Bob Reece
Fremantle WA

Anonymous said...

For Brownie: Can you please contact me about Robert Lyon MILNE.

Bob Reece
b.reece@murdoch.edu.au